That is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Rip goes around saying that bilateral is SUPERIOR to Unilateral and saying some type of nonsense about all athletics being bilateral or something. I don't know what he says, really but it's something simplistic like that. Now there ain't a self respecting strength coach, especially one who trains athletes, who would agree wit that.
And YET they will blindly recommend Starting Strength because of the instruction on the basic lifts. That's it, because of some written instructions on a few very simple damn lifts. People don't buy the book for the damned instruction. You can get good instruction on squats, presses, and deadlifts from any of hundreds of sources. They buy it for the program…which throws so many beginners under the bus it's ridiculous.
Where does the sort of dogmatic attitudes that give rise to these type of debates come from. People like Rip. Not "some guy on a forum.". That guy on the forum is quoting Rip. Squat and drink milk. C'mon.
And yet you will find an article where Mike Boyle, of all people, are PRAISING this shit. Why? Reputation and image that is DRIVEN by the industry. Fame. Not ability and talent. Fame. So many people who are influential have an image that has outgrown their ability.
I am not saying that Rippetoe created the debate about back squats versus front squats. Let's be clear on that. Rip recommends front squats. Mostly as a light day alternative, though. He is all about the back squat is superior to everything…
How could a statement like "the same position only higher" be made? Higher is EVERYTHING. It's not just forward or backward.
Here is an idea. It may sound ludicrous but hear me out.
TRY a frigging OH squat before you talk about it. If you think that doing a back squat will get you READY for an OH squat then you obviously haven't talked to even a BEGINNER who has done both. The fact that most people cannot do an OH squat is partially OWED to all the back squats they've done. That mixed with the typical training scenario which you (Joe) and EC have mentioned.
Basically, according to Mark Rippetoe either everyone is capable of doing a perfect OH squat OR, they shoudn't bother because it is the same thing as a back squat only higher. Both, likely. If OH squats are the SAME as back squats only the bar is higher than everyone who back squats, logically, should be able to do an OH squat. But they can't. Not even close.
Wow. And so many of the people who regularly back squat with a straight bar don't have the shoulders for it! And yet Rip says they can OH squat! Man oh man. If you have trouble just setting up a back squat because of your shoulders then you ain't gonna do an OH squat.
How can it possibly be the same thing to have a bar in your hands versus on your back?
See, you don't even have to get technical. Just use a tiny bit of common sense and logical thought. (I know that "common sense" is not a good argument. But let's assume that a reasonably intelligent person knows the difference between something sitting on his shoulder and held in his hands overhead).
The pistol versus vertical jump is far too complicated to get into. But that should tell you something. They are two completely different animals that would be done for different reasons. It's like just pulling something out of thin air to say that vertical jumps would be BETTER than pistols. Better for what?
It has to be expected. Because someone who has made their career on giving people simplistic cook-book prescriptions NEED people to be DEPENDENT. DON'T do anything that is OUTSIDE my experience or you take money out of my wallet, lol.
I rarely make blanket statements but I'm with Leigh on this one. I don't give a crap about fame. I don't even care if you are generally great at what you do. Everyone is subject to critical thought being applied to their ideas. Everyone. You, me, and ESPECIALLY the famous, influential ones. Those that can do the most good can therefore do the most HARM. Nothing that anybody says should be taken as scripture. As soon as you do that you take YOU out of the picture. How can you reach YOUR goals without YOU being in the picture?
Hey, front squats for "light day" is another little mini debate.