I remain unconvinced that it's necessary. I still pull the sled every week because I think it's worth the perceived benefits. Very few of the lifters at my gym do any GPP. Those that do also compete in strongman. One of the guys that won't do any GPP even trained at WSBB. I just read an article by Dave Tate & I've read other articles by other people and it still doesn't completely sit right with me. Does GPP training increase training capacity or strength capacity? Or both? I see how it could increase training capacity (which would ultimately increase strength capacity). Is it beneficial in all cases or would certain training methods not see the same benefits?
Date: 06 Dec 2008 15:01
Number of posts: 11
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Yeah, there's hundreds of articles that talk about how important it is over at elitefts as well as Louie's stuff. But, it all boils down to what YOU believe in. Personally, I don't see how anyone could argue it DOESN'T help! I think it's insane to see strongmen not doing strength endurance related cardio GPP. That's essentially what a strongman comp IS. It's not lifting the biggest log over their head.. It's doing it as many times as possible. Same with every single other event. Strongmen not training for endurance doesn't bode well. I've talked to Matt Reynolds at least a hundred times about GPP and he's convinced it'll make the difference between making your third attempt in a comp, or not. I've had a few friends of mine spend summers over at westside, and I'll tell you right now that guy you know is not the standard. Everyone does GPP according to them. Sled dragging is representative of 1/10 of the different GPP options out there.
That said, I won't cut and paste a thousand reasons why it IS necessary lol. Nowadays, I'll only speak for myself and my results. For me, since incorperating tough GPP workouts on my off days, it's made all the difference in the world. There is a huge difference in what I could do in an hour now compared to a year ago. Rest periods are extremely fast for me, which translates to an increased workload in less time. That's HUGE for strength training.
This is something that I lack. Now that my training is more volume I can see the difference in myself compared to a few years ago when my training was more volume. I'm sure doing GPP at least once a week if not twice will help me with my lifts. I believe that the cardiovascular part plays a huge roll in making certain lifts.
Cool. I didn't consider the difference it would make in a powerlifting competition. I talked to my buddy that I mentioned after starting this thread and he said something about after reaching a certain level, it was less important. I'm not sure which level he was talking about though. A guy named Louie Simmons that we've all heard of is at a higher level than he is, so I'm not sure where he was going with that. I'll ask him more about it tomorrow. He's a very well educated guy & I know that he has formed his opinion for very specific reasons. All of the strongmen competitors at my gym do GPP type stuff. It's the powerlifters that don't/won't. I suppose I'm the exception.
For me, since incorperating tough GPP workouts on my off days, it's made all the difference in the world. There is a huge difference in what I could do in an hour now compared to a year ago. Rest periods are extremely fast for me, which translates to an increased workload in less time. That's HUGE for strength training.
Do you credit any of the increases in squat/deadlift/bench numbers to GPP? I know you said more work in X amount of time, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're lifting more. I'm curious…just trying to wrap my head around all of this.
Absolutely!! It's not just about sled pulling as I pointed out. Simmons has the majority of his lifters execute "extra workouts" for increased GPP. I always do 100 reps of banded pressdowns every single night shift. And it's helped my pressing power tremendously. Add to that the extra workouts I do, combined with my preworkout "warmups" that really strengthen my weak points, my numbers really climbed a lot faster than any program I've ever tried in the gym. No shit.
A few examples of what I do:
Part of my sled pulling days, after every interval, I'll do 15 closegrip pushups as I'm watching my stop watch for that 30 seconds to end. Since I've done that, as well as the pressdowns, I've never had any more problems pressing off my chest. I'll also state that I always do pullups as part of my warmups in the gym, which is 3 times a week. I'm at a bodyweight of 240 lbs, and do sets of 8 fairly easily (now lol). My lats really make all the difference in the world for me to have better control lowering the barbell down (with my lats).
Also, my deadlifting has seen the best improvements since I stated really working on my hammies during my warmups. My hammies get nailed on deadlifting days, squatting days with gluteham raises, AND during 2 sled pulling session in which I always end my session with banded leg curls and abs work.
Now if you think about how much of an asset frequency is for both strength and mass, and if you break down and examine how much I actually work my whole body weak points that I don't mention in my log books, that's A LOT lol! Mainly, I very rarely ever get DOMS anymore unless I change something drastic such as moving from 1-3 RM's box squatting to sets of 5 olympic squatting LOL.
Awesome. Thanks for the examples. It's making me think about how I'm going to increase my own GPP. There are several areas that I need to work on. I have several ideas; I need to put it all together. I need to change my GPP from optional to mandatory.
On a side note, I've noticed something that's kind of funny. I have so many different influences from all different areas including people from forums, articles I read, people that train around me, etc. I got past the "I'm going to do this because this person is doing it & he is moving huge weight" stage and went straight to the "This person is different and he's at a different stage of his training, so I'm going to ignore everything that he's doing" stage. Now I'm at the "Why is this person doing that. I wonder if it would benefit my training or be a detriment" stage & it's a pain in the ass trying to sort everything out. :)
That's exactly where I'm at right now! Funny you mentioned that. It's kinda like the "working class" article I wrote. I've had the privilage to pick the minds of Reynolds and Wesley, each for a year. Add to that all the elitefts books, Supertraining, Serious Strength Training, ect.. And add to THAT all the Westside books and DVD's I sniped from ebay = The broadest range of knowledge possible. And to be honest, 80% of each example is in total agreement. The other 20% is what I like to do completely on my own. I've had ten years to get my shit straight, and had fun trying different things from DC all the way to something like max-ot.
And after all that knowledge passed through me, I've arrived at where I'm at now.. Training 3 days per week, and many GPP'esque extra workouts whenever I can fit them in. Stress and sleep I honestly put waay above dietary requirements for performance. Most of what you read in the forums is a literal cut and paste from someone they turn to for advice. You'll see guys writing responses with an IA feel to them.. Others a DC mentality. All the while though, not a single thought as to what THEY believe in.
That's really why ALL of my posts will be straight from the "darkhorse's mouth". If it goes against the grain, oh well. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong either. For example, I've seen people get their panties in a twist from a recent Poliquin response to the question, "Is training 3 times a week, 30 minutes a day good for hypertrophy?" He starts off by saying it's about as productive as farting into a hurricane. I've stated that if you take HIS clientele, of course it's not adequate. Add to that HIS recommendations:
Day 1- chest/back
Day 2- legs
Day 3- off
Day 4- arms
Day 5- off
Then examine that he has his guys train with at least 70% of their 1 RM's, and high amounts of volume.
Honestly, IMHO/IME, it's case closed.
Good stuff. We're on the same page then, it seems.
That's really why ALL of my posts will be straight from the "darkhorse's mouth". If it goes against the grain, oh well. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong either.
That's why I respect you & enjoy reading what you write. It's fresh, original, and real. The same is true for Coach Hale.
What is effective and appropriate for "GPP" HAS to be relative to what you do in your training in general. Having whole-sale recommendations for EVERYONE is ridiculous. If I did the kind of stuff some 350 pound fat-ass did for "gpp" it would be negative for my training seeing that my body is very slim and low of fat reserves as a rule.
And for anything you do there is a point of diminishing returns.
It is very important to pay attention to your own reactions and success versus what experts tell you to expect. Especially since some reccomendations go the opposite of reality from a physiological perspective.
Faster and faster recovery does not result in more absolute strength forever. It sounds like the Staley montra…more work in less time, more work in less time. Well, if one's biggest goal is to decrease recovery time between sets and spend less time in the gym I honestly do believe that EDT would be a more efficient and direct way of doing that.
But this all depends on your state of fitness when you start. There comes a point when the positives give way to negative as adpaptation begins to move in the opposite direction. Faster and faster recovery becomes endurance. The upper most limit of endurance is the lower most limit of absolute power, strength, acceleration. Something always has to give. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Look at Crossfit and what they try to do and ask yourself if it's really any different.
This would be a great test. Compare a crossfitter to a very accomplished Olympic lifter. Have them both jump up and down, in place for as long as possible. I'll bet you that the O lifter would start out with the highest acceleration, reaction time, total height, etc..but would of course lose power the quickest and take the LONGEST to recover. Whereas the crossfit dude would not be able to match the height, etc..but would be more "steady" and last longer and would then recover faster metabolically. There would be absolutely NO advantage for the Olympic lifter to be more like the crossfit guy, though. Quite simply, the more like a crossift guy he became, the less like an O lifter he would be. It's specificity. How much more simple can it be?