http://www.gustrength.com/forum/t-138771#post-466902

This is a perfect example of what we were talking about, Pirate, when I post the video of Steve Cotter's at the end.

is a pull up better than a chin up?

Not really. In terms of difficulty a pullup is more difficult than a chinup but really the two are not the same exercise. Chinups rely more on biceps whereas pullups rely on lats (but also some biceps, there is elbow flexion afterall).

I hesitate to compare the two and say which is better because they really have their own advantages and disadvantages.

With pullups alone, changing the spacing of your hands can change the exercise quite a bit.

and doing a pull down or push..down…whatever you know what I mean, does that activate the same muscles as a pull up?

The short answer is yes. However a pullup is a bit different for the reasons I mention in the article.

But the advantage over pulldowns is in the open vs closed chain. If you're good at the closed chain exercise you'll be good at the open chain equivalent, the opposite is not necessarily true.

So is part of your point here saying that you would be more impressed and have more respect for the guy who does a perfect squat at 150lbs than a guy can do a shit squat at 250, and that whole sort of mind frame? If so, I would agree 100% because I am one of those little guys who would rather lift a small amount once than a ridiculously huge amount wrong.

That is a big part of my point. I'm more impressed with someone that actually took the time to learn something well. That takes a lot more dedication and effort. Patience too.

I agree with Eric's comments as well. The bit about loading the bar with your ego is really the central issue!

Thanks for the comment, Pirate!

The thing about stuff like pullups, kind of like Joe was saying, is that if you swing all over the place and do all kinds of gyrations you'll just look like a DB and everybody will know it…even you aunt over at the treadmill, lol. But that guy does the shit squat at 250 will STILL get a pat on the back, half the time.

For MANY people, especially the rats, the gym is all about poundages and throwing around 'big' weights. I'd rather not get into a bunch of psychology, lol, but for some reason going to the gym and just doing your thing isn't enough. Its a race to add plates to everything and get the biggest biceps. The problem is that you miss out on, I'd say, about half (maybe even 3/4s) of the experience or benefit of lifting.

I workout from 6:30am to about 8:30am. The gym is not busy. There are maybe 12-20 people lifting and about 12-20 doing cardio. There are 2 Platforms and 4 squat racks. I NEVER have a problem getting one and since I'm usually in the squat rack/platform for a good portion, if not the entire workout, I see who uses them. There are maybe 2 people at any given time using them and every damn time its for quarter squats with weights that they CANNOT handle or upright rows. I'm not talking 300lbs or 400lbs either, I'm talking 185lb 1/4 ROM back squats. That is not impressive. It is stupid. You're only short changing your own progress and gains by doing that sort of crap, and maybe even getting a nice injury for your hard work. These same people hop right onto the lead sled and load it full of plates for more reduced ROM action.

I saw a guy this very morning doing 185lbs for quarter squats and he almost lost the bar. His 'spotter' had to grab one end of the bar to keep it on his back. And no it wasn't offset, he had that sucker centred on his back at the start.

How does this tie in with pullups? Same scenario. Guys can't do pullups (just like they can't squat) to save their lives so they hop onto the pulldown because they can put the pin halfway down the stack and cheat out their reps. Why work on pullups and risk looking like you don't know what you're doing (which they don't in the first place) they hop onto something that requires nothing coming into it. AND these guys think that pulling more than half the stack is impressive! I've heard a guy give out compliments to someone because he pulled a 200lb pulldown.

It makes me want to go in tomorrow and pull the entire stack, then proclaim "Yeahhhhh budddy! Lightweight!" After which I will return to doing more pullups.

I remember writing a blog post where in a nutshell I was talking about all or nothing type goals. There is so much focus on "long term" goals and also, as Anuj, pointed out so recently, so many people don't stick to training yet "progress" very quickly.

Yes, except that so many of those people who progress so quickly and then drop out just as quickly after injury or just plain burnour or the inevitable brush with "reality"…they can't do hardly any pullups. How many guys have we known who get defensive about their lat pulldowns and use the 'I don't care about strength' excuse? Lot of guilt riding on the inability to handle your own bodyweight well.

You take some of these people who are so focused on far off numbers. The bar, the scale, etc.. and start them out just with the goal of getting good with their bodyweight pullups and then adding weight to that..I have a theory they will 'stick' longer for all sorts of reasons.

This is a reason I get so down on "programs" and their promise of results. People expect so much so fast but are left dissapointed and unfulfilled when they get their. Yet a SIMPLE goals such as "I'm going to get that first pullup" can mean everything.