It ends when you say it ends. As you say it depends on comfort level, etc..

The thing is, after a a couple times this becomes a lot like those "quality volume" workouts. In fact they are QUITE similar since I like a quality volume session to 'reintroduce' a movement that hasn't been done in a while and this is for a new movement. And as you know those workouts can make you stronger.

Just doing this kind of loose thing a beginner especially is going to be increasing neural efficiency and coordination. All sorts of thing come together and this IS a case where I expect some progression from session to session.

So you can imagine if you have a trainee who is getting stronger…why stop? You're focusing on quality movement and getting more weight on the bar..what could be better for a beginner or ANYONE?

A lot of people, I think, would say that this beginner is 'finding' his TRUE rep maximums. Or one rep maximum. So in effect he is not getting stronger he is doing whatever they imagine that vague statement means. But you know I think that is BS.

But you have to be reasonable. You want at least SOME variety and these sessions, like I said, they take time. Most people just don't have that kind of time. Even if you did have the time to add variety on top of this…it becomes pretty silly and you are going to end up having a beginner rushing through the end with supersets or what not…kind of advanced and unnecessary for a beginner in itself in terms of strength gain.

So..it just becomes inefficient after a little while.

Keep in mind that I am not saying that every little single little exercise you do needs to have some long and drawn out honeymoon period. We're talking the big and more complex movements that tend to give trainees trouble later down the road because of lack of good learning and too aggressive loading early on.

But things like pullups can be got moving very quickly. Bodyweight stuff in general is the MOST useful thing to program in the midst of the honeymoon period. So pullups, pushups, planks, all that good stuff.

This period is also the time to find fundamental problems that are so easily glossed over in a program. You might be doing deadlifts and find that you need to work on glute activation and stuff like that. If someone has trouble during the honeymoon period then they are darn sure not ready to start counting reps and sets and loading the bar. So it's the time to see what is what and solve problems before they become bigger problems.

Let's say I get someone who has never benched or deadlifted before and I get him to deadlift 2x a week and work on quality and form and drill it into him for a month say…what numbers (if any) should he be hitting before he weens off this sort of training and gets a bit more organized? Are there any such specific numbers?

Way to make up for lost time, E :-D

Imagine if your first week you were expected to only work of one hour and to get as many pieces done in that hour as possible. Then after the first week you were thrown to the wolves, so to speak, and you were expected to make quota.

You wouldn't. You'd be in trouble.

Yet this is exactly how most beginner programs work. You are expected to go right into the program with minimal exposure and MAKE QUOTA.

I did read them back to back, so I'm sure a bit of the intro piece bled through into my comment.

I think that is some solid advice

Thanks!

From the second paragraph onwards of that comment, Joe, I am not sure we are talking about the same things. I am speaking of novices learning the lifts for the VERY FIRST time and anyone learning a completely new lift. You seem to be talking about more advanced stages of trainings.

I was trying to avoid terms like single, doubles, and triples because they are terms we use when we are talking about near maximal training and I wasn't talking about any kind of very high intensity situation.

Although you may be combining your responses to this and the preceding introductory piece, so in that case, if you're confused by what Joe said go back and read Teaching Versus Learning The Lifts which is of a more general nature and was meant to introduce this article.

Not that I disagree with anything you said..only that we are not talking about the same thing!

It's always the best practice to learn a movement in as low a state of fatigue as possible. Even if you're going to perform the movement fatigued during a workout its best to learn in a fresh state. The last thing you want is to try and work on movement technique and proper muscle activation in a state of fatigue. It opens the door to compensations and if you learn something in a state of fatigue you're body will remember exactly that. Its like that old college myth, if you study drunk you have to write the test drunk, or was that tired? I might have mixed them up, lol.

The best thing to do from the get go is forget about specific reps and sets and the quota. Pick a general range you want to work in, 1-3 reps, 6-8 reps, whatever, and then just play it by ear. I quite literally don't know how many sets I will do until it comes closer to the end of the workout, I have an idea but I couldn't say I will do x sets today. Same sort of thing with reps. I have a general idea of what I'm going to do when it comes to doubles and triples, but I don't actually know if I will do a double or a triple until I'm at that point in the set. It is literally a last second decision to rack the weight or go for a triple. And if I get a triple that's great, if I get a double, thats great too. Same with accessories. I usually do a range of 6-8 and I pick a weight I can handle for that range (plus or minus a rep). I would like to get 8 reps, but if I can only get 5 or 6 then that's perfectly fine by me. This all ties in beautifully with triple progression because I make the rules and not my spreadsheet. :)

Singles are a different animal, I usually know what I will do that specific day, but even those are not written in stone.

These quotas are really only good for reinforcing single progression via load, 5x5 means 5 sets of 5 reps, no more and no less (according to just about anyone promoting them), the only thing you are ALLOWED to change is the load. Which may be alright for a little bit but in the end it will lead to stagnation and 'backing off', or form degradation. Maybe even all 3. Triple REgression instead of PROgression. Oh yeah, injuries too.